Yes—we have worked with hundreds of students on sales (specifically, direct sales for authors) so the patterns really started to emerge for us. I'm glad you find it fresh!
Aug 8, 2023Liked by Russell Nohelty, Monica Leonelle
Because I've yet to publish anything, I can only guess at my answers, but I've taken the quiz twice and both times ended up as Grassland. So, I'll assume that, unless I have a huge personality change when I finally publish, I'm a Grassland.
I'm a Grassland! And I love being a Grassland. I agree with Russell that our secret weapon is content marketing, and it's where we should focus our efforts (though we need to be really strategic about it, too).
It's so interesting. Reading the Grassland's description, it really describes what I imagine my process to be like. Where I (will) stumble is/will be quantity. I'm writing long-long form historical fiction in an out-of-the-way time/place, so creating the content at volume will be the struggle. I am, however, deeply committed to the genre and trying to build on that while I get the (derned) book done - so I can I can write more. Ooof.
That's super interesting. So, I'll bet you find a lot of cool stuff about that time and place you might be able to use as ways to bring people into your work while you write it. Lots of grasslands have success that way.
Yes! I am giddy about things 99.9% of people have never heard of. So, I hope I can bring a sense of wonder to my Substack and additional content that will attract the right readers.
As a reader, I love that sort of post! And I'm sure I'm not alone in this -- Atlas Obscura has a large audience.
I once met a writer who informed me that Victorian hair art (weaving things out of human hair) is a thing that existed. (Are you familiar with it?) I love this sort of "whoa, who knew?" topic that expand my view of the world and could potentially inform worldbuilding.
That's awesome! So, a grassland's secret weapon is content marketing, and being able to seed the conversation so that when the topic gets hot, they are the natural person everyone turns too.
I love the thought of making content my main thing. As noted in my reply to Monica, volume will be a challenge. But I do think the deep focus suits me well. Whew. Know thyself, right?
May 28·edited Jun 7Liked by Monica Leonelle, Russell Nohelty
This was so fascinating, and I either read or listened to all the articles and interviews. And only made an account to write a question that has been biting me for the last several months since learning of this system. I still can't tell whether I am Forest or Aquatic. It's mostly because of the various formats of the Aquatic and the interconnectivity of the Forest contrasted against the trends and tropes of the Forest, which tends to be more coincidental rather than intentionally twisting, and the mild passion in the practical artistry, since i do like doing the various pieces themselves.
Hi Aria! I think one way that Forests and Aquatics are at the very opposite ends of the spectrum is that Forests tend to build on what exists and are by and large a "following" style of sales and marketing (testing things that other people have figured out that work). Whereas Aquatics are an inventive style of sales and marketing, usually on the cutting edge of something new, and usually taking three or four threads and creating a brand new thing that the world has not really seen before.
There is otherwise some overlap between these types because they are right next to each other on the spectrum.
I'm not sure. You should read our book, or the rest of this blog, and find out. It's impossible to tell from a comment which you are. You kind of have to figure it out for yourself. We all have all five. The question is which gets you to success fastest. These are not personality types. They are not exclusive. The goal is to have all five working for you.
Oh, okay! I had read everything on the blog, and spent hours listening to you talk about it, and was still wavering between Forest and Aquatic. Is there a must-have thingy like Grasslands have, but for Forests or Aquatics? As for the book, i must have missed it. Which book is it? Sorry, and thanks!
Aug 18, 2023Liked by Monica Leonelle, Russell Nohelty
I love your biome idea! It seems both vivid and practical.
Not sure whether I'm a Forest or a Grassland. I follow my interests, which can be varied (like a Forest) but usually delve deeply (like a Grassland). While I'm curious about many things (Forest), I only excel when I focus on 1 or 2 projects at a time (Grassland). So I'm constantly conflicted about where to put my energy.
Unfortunately, the posts I'm most interested in, delve most deeply into, and feel most proud of, are the ones people are least likely to read. I seem to have the intense interest of a Forest, but lack their ability to pick topics that get popular. So, I'm not sure whether to try out your advice for Forests or for Grasslands.
I wonder if "How to Tell if You're a Forest or a Grassland" is a common enough question to be worth a post? :)
There is an easy way to tell. When you predict where the industry is going are you right? It's a bit crass, but you can only be a grassland if your predictions come true and your are able to control the conversation when it does. Also, if you don't know you're a grassland, you are probably a forest.
Yes, I agree...We have a lot of Forests who think they are Grasslands or are torn between Grassland and Forest. They almost all eventually agree they are Forests. We can spot Grasslands pretty easily, because they are at the height of trends on a regular basis.
Based on what you said, you're probably a Forest. All authors can go deep on areas of interest, but Grasslands tend to go deep on only things that they know they can gain traction with. They are otherwise generalists and watching everything, growing little seeds to see what flourishes, and keeping a strong pace at whatever is already planted.
When something starts to flourish, they are more likely to incorporate it or "weave" it into what they are already doing. They tend to weave disparate threads together into one strong thing.
Thanks! Weaving all my projects into a single thing is consistently challenging for me. Perhaps that means I'm a Forest and it's something to accept and work with. :)
It's so important for Forests to understand their strengths, as that's the path to success for them 🙂 Trying to be a Grassland will not work well for a Forest and will likely lead to frustration.
This is so cool. I took the quiz and got Forest, which makes perfect sense. I don’t have a lot of pen names, but I do have several different projects and a strict rotation schedule to keep them all growing simultaneously. I haven’t published a novel yet, but I am working on one alongside my Substack projects. I like the advice about not chasing interests that are too niche, that’s a trap I’ve fallen into before and it’s good to have a reminder.
I have to add that given the state of my apartment (I kind of have a ficus addiction), it seems Forest suits me on a lot of levels 😂
Anyway, thanks for this, it’s a really fun and fresh way to look at marketing, which can be kind of a downer sometimes.
This is one of the more interesting and eye openig post I've read in a while. I look at a lot of creative work more so through this lens then before. Because of that I feel I'm a bit more understanding of how certain creatives have gotten to where they are.
Hey Russell, have you heard of Ream? It’s a serial subscription started by Michael Evan and the way he talks about it on the Indy Author Podcast it sounds similar to what you and Monica are doing on Substack. I’m just trying to decide which subscription service to go with for my readers because it makes sense to just pursue one. Just wondering if you had any insight on it or opinions as to which creators subscription service is the best one to do? Thanks
Yes, we know Ream! Serializing is a business model, Substack is one platform that is popular... Patreon and Ream are the other two (the latter more on the fiction side).
I think it depends so much on what you like and what you are launching. If you're doing nonfiction, Substack is a really great place to be, but each platform has various features. You could set up on each and feel them out, and ultimately go with the one that people gravitate toward.
That’s a good idea to try out both and see which I like best. I definitely lean more towards writing fiction. And if I do nonfiction it’s usually about marketing and audience building even though I’m still very much a baby author. But it’s the type of nonfiction I love.
Ream is great! Michael and Emilia are the best of the best ones. I feel bad because I don't know the third partner, but I am sure he's awesome, too. I have tried a ton of subscription platforms and they all failed. The only reason I tried Substack was because there was an organic reach component, and that's what I wanted most of all. I get about 500-600 free subscribers a month, and that means everything to me. Plus, Notes has been the only platform I like. I've failed at building community off Facebook everywhere else.
I liked the decentralized-centralized model of Substack, but it's probably a bit better for non-fiction than fiction, especially if you are in author services. I had every intention of going all-in on Ream, but the Substack thing took off, but I have a Ream set up. I've just not launched it. yet.
Also, I like that on Substack the writing is the only benefit really. I have a bunch of fiction behind my paywall, but I didn't want to be forced to make a bunch of new things for people every month. That is just me. I'm a tundra, not a forest. Forests probably love making new things for their audience every month.
Yes. PBS takes donations all year, but they focus on them a few times a year, offering extra bonuses and highlighting the best reasons to donate. The same style can be done for a Substack, or any membership.
Is there something weird if I don’t feel I belong in any of these categories? How were they generated? I mean, were they generated (based on, say, 2-3 parameters), or brainstormed from experience, imagination etc.?
The quiz is definitely focused on sales and marketing (which is what we help authors with) and is aimed at writers (or artists, or coaches—creators in general) who are trying to make a career of what they are doing.
We do have some mindset and production content for each ecosystem that we'll port over here soon.
Have you taken the quiz? It comes from helping thousands of authors in the past 25+ years, and studying what worked and didn't work with the students in our programs. We have had hundreds of people go through the quiz and we have never heard of somebody that doesn't have a fit with any of them. However, there are always edge cases.
Thanks, yes, I did, actually, some time ago, when I first subscribed, directly on your website. Maybe it’s because I’m not a professional author, and my primary focus is fiction, but was wondering anyway. The descriptions combine aspects that don’t necessarily need to combine, at least theoretically. For instance, aspects related to what kind of author they are when writing, and what their market flair is, how well they know their readers. To me, it looks like a a very in-depth sorting of authors who do that professionally (and have done it for some time), and have by default experience with their markets.
We work with mostly fiction authors at every stage of their career, and while you might not think that those aspects need to be combined together, we have found that authors who are successful in each ecosystem do tend to follow certain rhythms. A grassland, for instance, will almost always get the best return from content marketing from every ecosystem because of the depth of their knowledge on a topic, and how many times they will get backlinks to their content.
In contrast, a Tundra needs lots of time between launches because they go very hard during their launches to build the excitement they need to succeed. They need to add multiple evergreen tropes so they can build interest from enough disparate audiences to have a successful launch.
Deserts, by contrast, mostly need to be flies on the wall to get an accurate depiction of what the market is saying at any moment so they can respond by writing the right book. Their ability to detach from the work allows them to write to market in a way other ecosystems can't.
The way you write and the way you market are interconnected, as the types of books you write will help your marketing be more successful.
Right. But the way you’re describing them, above and in the text, and the way the quiz is worded seems to rely on the fact that the author has had the experience of launching, publishing and gauging what has worked, several times. I had to answer Disagree to all of the questions in the quiz, even when I might have said Agree to the first bit -- because that bit was combined with something that I couldn’t even imagine would suit me even hypothetically. I haven’t published and certainly haven’t launched anything, and I never wrote a single line in connection with what a market might, or might not have expected; I never check that in advance, I just write what’s right for me :) So: I’d love to discover my potential strengths when I go for self-publishing, but the quiz would have to be less descriptive, and more predictive if someone like me was to feel they can give thoughtful responses. I hope you don’t mind all this, it’s not meant as criticism in any way. I appreciate the level of thinking that went into it, and I just wish I could benefit from it, too.
If you write what you feel, then you are probably a forest. We do focus on people further in their journey, that is true. I would suggest Monica’s series the productive novelist, or my solo nonfiction. This is specifically a sales and marketing archetyping system for authors.
It’s impressive to come up with a way of sorting people that has this much freshness. Fascinating and very practical!
Thanks!
Yes—we have worked with hundreds of students on sales (specifically, direct sales for authors) so the patterns really started to emerge for us. I'm glad you find it fresh!
Because I've yet to publish anything, I can only guess at my answers, but I've taken the quiz twice and both times ended up as Grassland. So, I'll assume that, unless I have a huge personality change when I finally publish, I'm a Grassland.
I'm a Grassland! And I love being a Grassland. I agree with Russell that our secret weapon is content marketing, and it's where we should focus our efforts (though we need to be really strategic about it, too).
It's so interesting. Reading the Grassland's description, it really describes what I imagine my process to be like. Where I (will) stumble is/will be quantity. I'm writing long-long form historical fiction in an out-of-the-way time/place, so creating the content at volume will be the struggle. I am, however, deeply committed to the genre and trying to build on that while I get the (derned) book done - so I can I can write more. Ooof.
That's super interesting. So, I'll bet you find a lot of cool stuff about that time and place you might be able to use as ways to bring people into your work while you write it. Lots of grasslands have success that way.
Yes! I am giddy about things 99.9% of people have never heard of. So, I hope I can bring a sense of wonder to my Substack and additional content that will attract the right readers.
As a reader, I love that sort of post! And I'm sure I'm not alone in this -- Atlas Obscura has a large audience.
I once met a writer who informed me that Victorian hair art (weaving things out of human hair) is a thing that existed. (Are you familiar with it?) I love this sort of "whoa, who knew?" topic that expand my view of the world and could potentially inform worldbuilding.
Victorian hair art! LOL! Nope. Didn't know that one. But, yeah, that sort of thing, especially from history, just fascinates me. (Us!)
That's awesome! So, a grassland's secret weapon is content marketing, and being able to seed the conversation so that when the topic gets hot, they are the natural person everyone turns too.
I love the thought of making content my main thing. As noted in my reply to Monica, volume will be a challenge. But I do think the deep focus suits me well. Whew. Know thyself, right?
This was so fascinating, and I either read or listened to all the articles and interviews. And only made an account to write a question that has been biting me for the last several months since learning of this system. I still can't tell whether I am Forest or Aquatic. It's mostly because of the various formats of the Aquatic and the interconnectivity of the Forest contrasted against the trends and tropes of the Forest, which tends to be more coincidental rather than intentionally twisting, and the mild passion in the practical artistry, since i do like doing the various pieces themselves.
Hi Aria! I think one way that Forests and Aquatics are at the very opposite ends of the spectrum is that Forests tend to build on what exists and are by and large a "following" style of sales and marketing (testing things that other people have figured out that work). Whereas Aquatics are an inventive style of sales and marketing, usually on the cutting edge of something new, and usually taking three or four threads and creating a brand new thing that the world has not really seen before.
There is otherwise some overlap between these types because they are right next to each other on the spectrum.
Thank you ever much for the comparisons! I'm still a bit hazy, but less so thanks to your answer.
I'm not sure. You should read our book, or the rest of this blog, and find out. It's impossible to tell from a comment which you are. You kind of have to figure it out for yourself. We all have all five. The question is which gets you to success fastest. These are not personality types. They are not exclusive. The goal is to have all five working for you.
Oh, okay! I had read everything on the blog, and spent hours listening to you talk about it, and was still wavering between Forest and Aquatic. Is there a must-have thingy like Grasslands have, but for Forests or Aquatics? As for the book, i must have missed it. Which book is it? Sorry, and thanks!
I love your biome idea! It seems both vivid and practical.
Not sure whether I'm a Forest or a Grassland. I follow my interests, which can be varied (like a Forest) but usually delve deeply (like a Grassland). While I'm curious about many things (Forest), I only excel when I focus on 1 or 2 projects at a time (Grassland). So I'm constantly conflicted about where to put my energy.
Unfortunately, the posts I'm most interested in, delve most deeply into, and feel most proud of, are the ones people are least likely to read. I seem to have the intense interest of a Forest, but lack their ability to pick topics that get popular. So, I'm not sure whether to try out your advice for Forests or for Grasslands.
I wonder if "How to Tell if You're a Forest or a Grassland" is a common enough question to be worth a post? :)
There is an easy way to tell. When you predict where the industry is going are you right? It's a bit crass, but you can only be a grassland if your predictions come true and your are able to control the conversation when it does. Also, if you don't know you're a grassland, you are probably a forest.
Yes, I agree...We have a lot of Forests who think they are Grasslands or are torn between Grassland and Forest. They almost all eventually agree they are Forests. We can spot Grasslands pretty easily, because they are at the height of trends on a regular basis.
But yeah, maybe it does warrant a further post!
Thanks!
What if you don't try to predict where the industry is going, and when you learn about trends, you disagree with the advice or they don't fit you? ;)
then you are almost certainly a forest
Thank you!
Based on what you said, you're probably a Forest. All authors can go deep on areas of interest, but Grasslands tend to go deep on only things that they know they can gain traction with. They are otherwise generalists and watching everything, growing little seeds to see what flourishes, and keeping a strong pace at whatever is already planted.
When something starts to flourish, they are more likely to incorporate it or "weave" it into what they are already doing. They tend to weave disparate threads together into one strong thing.
Thanks! Weaving all my projects into a single thing is consistently challenging for me. Perhaps that means I'm a Forest and it's something to accept and work with. :)
It's so important for Forests to understand their strengths, as that's the path to success for them 🙂 Trying to be a Grassland will not work well for a Forest and will likely lead to frustration.
This is so cool. I took the quiz and got Forest, which makes perfect sense. I don’t have a lot of pen names, but I do have several different projects and a strict rotation schedule to keep them all growing simultaneously. I haven’t published a novel yet, but I am working on one alongside my Substack projects. I like the advice about not chasing interests that are too niche, that’s a trap I’ve fallen into before and it’s good to have a reminder.
I have to add that given the state of my apartment (I kind of have a ficus addiction), it seems Forest suits me on a lot of levels 😂
Anyway, thanks for this, it’s a really fun and fresh way to look at marketing, which can be kind of a downer sometimes.
Yay! So glad it can be helpful :)
This is one of the more interesting and eye openig post I've read in a while. I look at a lot of creative work more so through this lens then before. Because of that I feel I'm a bit more understanding of how certain creatives have gotten to where they are.
Yay! That’s amazing :)
Hey Russell, have you heard of Ream? It’s a serial subscription started by Michael Evan and the way he talks about it on the Indy Author Podcast it sounds similar to what you and Monica are doing on Substack. I’m just trying to decide which subscription service to go with for my readers because it makes sense to just pursue one. Just wondering if you had any insight on it or opinions as to which creators subscription service is the best one to do? Thanks
Yes, we know Ream! Serializing is a business model, Substack is one platform that is popular... Patreon and Ream are the other two (the latter more on the fiction side).
I think it depends so much on what you like and what you are launching. If you're doing nonfiction, Substack is a really great place to be, but each platform has various features. You could set up on each and feel them out, and ultimately go with the one that people gravitate toward.
That’s a good idea to try out both and see which I like best. I definitely lean more towards writing fiction. And if I do nonfiction it’s usually about marketing and audience building even though I’m still very much a baby author. But it’s the type of nonfiction I love.
If you're more on the fiction side, Ream fiction authors often have a tier just for nonfiction or other authors. Could be worth trying!
Ream is great! Michael and Emilia are the best of the best ones. I feel bad because I don't know the third partner, but I am sure he's awesome, too. I have tried a ton of subscription platforms and they all failed. The only reason I tried Substack was because there was an organic reach component, and that's what I wanted most of all. I get about 500-600 free subscribers a month, and that means everything to me. Plus, Notes has been the only platform I like. I've failed at building community off Facebook everywhere else.
I liked the decentralized-centralized model of Substack, but it's probably a bit better for non-fiction than fiction, especially if you are in author services. I had every intention of going all-in on Ream, but the Substack thing took off, but I have a Ream set up. I've just not launched it. yet.
Also, I like that on Substack the writing is the only benefit really. I have a bunch of fiction behind my paywall, but I didn't want to be forced to make a bunch of new things for people every month. That is just me. I'm a tundra, not a forest. Forests probably love making new things for their audience every month.
I’m a tundra too. That’s why I’m thinking about serializing: to get the most $$$ out of everything I write. Thanks for your thoughts!
Nice!
You would probably get a lot out of doing a PBS style fundraising drive for your subscription then!
What's PBS style fundraising? Like, the TV channel PBS? Or something else? I'm gonna go google it. Thanks!
Yes. PBS takes donations all year, but they focus on them a few times a year, offering extra bonuses and highlighting the best reasons to donate. The same style can be done for a Substack, or any membership.
Is there something weird if I don’t feel I belong in any of these categories? How were they generated? I mean, were they generated (based on, say, 2-3 parameters), or brainstormed from experience, imagination etc.?
The quiz is definitely focused on sales and marketing (which is what we help authors with) and is aimed at writers (or artists, or coaches—creators in general) who are trying to make a career of what they are doing.
We do have some mindset and production content for each ecosystem that we'll port over here soon.
Have you taken the quiz? It comes from helping thousands of authors in the past 25+ years, and studying what worked and didn't work with the students in our programs. We have had hundreds of people go through the quiz and we have never heard of somebody that doesn't have a fit with any of them. However, there are always edge cases.
Thanks, yes, I did, actually, some time ago, when I first subscribed, directly on your website. Maybe it’s because I’m not a professional author, and my primary focus is fiction, but was wondering anyway. The descriptions combine aspects that don’t necessarily need to combine, at least theoretically. For instance, aspects related to what kind of author they are when writing, and what their market flair is, how well they know their readers. To me, it looks like a a very in-depth sorting of authors who do that professionally (and have done it for some time), and have by default experience with their markets.
We work with mostly fiction authors at every stage of their career, and while you might not think that those aspects need to be combined together, we have found that authors who are successful in each ecosystem do tend to follow certain rhythms. A grassland, for instance, will almost always get the best return from content marketing from every ecosystem because of the depth of their knowledge on a topic, and how many times they will get backlinks to their content.
In contrast, a Tundra needs lots of time between launches because they go very hard during their launches to build the excitement they need to succeed. They need to add multiple evergreen tropes so they can build interest from enough disparate audiences to have a successful launch.
Deserts, by contrast, mostly need to be flies on the wall to get an accurate depiction of what the market is saying at any moment so they can respond by writing the right book. Their ability to detach from the work allows them to write to market in a way other ecosystems can't.
The way you write and the way you market are interconnected, as the types of books you write will help your marketing be more successful.
Right. But the way you’re describing them, above and in the text, and the way the quiz is worded seems to rely on the fact that the author has had the experience of launching, publishing and gauging what has worked, several times. I had to answer Disagree to all of the questions in the quiz, even when I might have said Agree to the first bit -- because that bit was combined with something that I couldn’t even imagine would suit me even hypothetically. I haven’t published and certainly haven’t launched anything, and I never wrote a single line in connection with what a market might, or might not have expected; I never check that in advance, I just write what’s right for me :) So: I’d love to discover my potential strengths when I go for self-publishing, but the quiz would have to be less descriptive, and more predictive if someone like me was to feel they can give thoughtful responses. I hope you don’t mind all this, it’s not meant as criticism in any way. I appreciate the level of thinking that went into it, and I just wish I could benefit from it, too.
If you write what you feel, then you are probably a forest. We do focus on people further in their journey, that is true. I would suggest Monica’s series the productive novelist, or my solo nonfiction. This is specifically a sales and marketing archetyping system for authors.
Great Quiz - thanks Russel! From a Grateful Grassland
Let us know which you get! I love knowing people's ecosystem.
Yay!
Awesome!